Faith Freedom

[WiseGuy]

Aslamalycom brothers and sisters in Islam,

First of all I would like to thank Ahmed (the administrator) for inviting me on this web site. Inshallah I will visit again but at the present moment my debates and refuttals can be seen with brother ''Aussie'' Ahmed at the faith forum website.

Brothers and Sisters if you are going to debate these kaffurs, please debate with caution. Brother Ahmed recently congratulated me on debating the topic of semen (thanks to reference from answeringchristianity-most email this excellent man) for putting up an argument which you would think would shut the critics up.

This was not the case, these vultures attacked me with lame comments and notice how they will twist even science to meet thier demands.

Anyways I will visit when I can, am off FF for a few days, so I will visit here during that period.

Take Care

Salaam!

[AhmedBahgat]

[AhmedBahgat]

[WiseGuy]

Sorry I have not posted anything for a while, too busy slam dunking you all in the games lol

I hope people reading my argument will take a note of this.

Wise Guy Explains!

After weeks of debating on the following verse I decided to slum dunk all of you with my summary:

Noble Verse 86:5-7:
Quote:
YUSUFALI: Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.

PICKTHAL: So let man consider from what he is created. He is created from a gushing fluid. That issued from between the loins and ribs.


Now after reading a few comments by non-muslims and even some muslims I was suprise to find that these individuals have no idea what the verse above is referring to.
I mean Shoeshiner titled the thread that I was debating on ''Where does sperm come from?''
This was a clear indication that he has no idea what the above verse is on about. MsWesterner brings up the question ''so do you still think sperm is produced between the ribs and the backbone?'' Now I know she is deficient (btw Islam does not teach this-I think yet again critics have misinterpreted this) however I have explained clearly what this verse means so I would like to take this opportunity to summarise.

When you read the verse 86:5-7, out of the three statements no where does the terms ''sperm production'' or ''semen production'' appear.
Now when I speak to critics such as watchamalit and sum they ask ''Why was the sperm not mentioned?'' -Afterall Sperm fertilises the ovum. Therefore they get upset that the testes are not mentioned however I refute them with a simple fact of the holy Qu'ran which is the Islamic Holy book is a book of Signs about Facts and not a book of Science therefore why would you expect the Qu'ran to be recognised as a human biology manual.

However another frequent asked question is ''why does the Qu'ran claim the ''gushing fluid'' (which refers to semen)creates man, when it is the sperm?'' Well obviously the verse is highlighting a sign here so lets investigate.

So what sign does this verse hold?

PICKTHAL: So let man consider from what he is created. He is created from a gushing fluid. That issued from between the loins and ribs.


Well lets analyse this verse first then using scientific facts lets see where this statement fits in shall we.

The above verse simply informs the reader that during coitus semen is stored in the seminal vesicles and spurts out from this organ (which happens to lie between the ribs and coccyx).

Okay lets introduce some scientific facts into this discussion so we can see the big picture.

1. Sperm is produced from the two testicles that are located in the scrotum.

2. From there the sperm travels to the prostate through specialised tubes called vasa deferentia.

3. The sperm is mixed with special secretions from the prostate and the two seminal vesicles, located near the outlet of the bladder.

4. Semen is formed when sperm from the testicles combines with the special secretions from the prostate and the two seminal vesicles.

5. Semen is stored in the seminal vesicles,located near the outlet of the bladder.
Note that an organ in the abdomen (between the backbone and the ribs)situated on either side of the urethra in an area just above the prostrate gland is called the seminal vesicle.

(He is) created from the surging fluid! Which springs from between the spine and the ribs! 86:6-7

Now you should have come to realise at this point the sign the noble verse was illustrating. Point 5 is a scientific facts so if you refute the above then you are disputing science .

6. The sperm helps to reproduce and conceive a child when it fertilises a women's egg.

7. During ejaculation the semen is forced to the outside through the urethra, inside the penis. Sperm forms a small component of the ejaculated semen.

So you should now appreciate what the verse in particular 86:6-7 was getting at. It does not mention the stages before the semen is stored in the seminal vesicles (points 1-4) nor does it mention the process that takes place after (points 6-7). As I explained before the Qu'ran is not a book of medicine or human anatomy.

The verse 86:5-7 is a clear sign that informs the reader without the existance of the ''gushing fluid'' translated to the ejaculated semen there would be no fertilisation. You cannot dispute this sign because this sign is a scientific fact.

This is why Vasecotmy is carried out, its a form of permanent contraception. This procedure is to prevent the sperm from joining the semen before the semen is ejaculated.
This is carried out by cutting the vasa deferentia, in which the sperm travels from the testicles to its resting location in the seminal vesicles.

After the procedure, sperm is still made in the testicles. However it dies there and is reabsorbed by the body.

So we have established that the sign of science that Allah has choosen is extremely relevant. Why because it is discovered that sperm cannot survive on its own without semen. Without semen man cannot be created.

Now Sum argued ''why did Allah not use the word pelvis''...well the verse is not focusing on the prostate and the seminal vesicles is recognised to be located in the abdomen. However as I mention the word sulb can mean loin or lower back also so this would eliminate the upper part of the rib and by the same token include the pelvis where the prostate is located at.
Another attack was ''Allah was careless with his choice of words''. I disagree completely and I tell you why.

Only a creator of the universe can reveal words that remain precise and accurate for thousands of years even in this changing world. Every generation feels as if the Quran was revealed specifically for them, and only yesterday.

That is the miracle of the Quran! Its words seem always to be in agreement with what science has observed and determined with certainty.

An example!

The Qur'an asked the believers to say the following before mounting a horse, a camel or any other animal.

�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�???????Supreme is He Who tamed this for us. We could not have done it (otherwise). And we are certainly going to return to our Lord!�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�� 43:13-14

When we get into a car or aboard plane we get a feeling that these words were revealed in the modern ages!

The statements of the Quran about the creation of the world, and about the relativity of time and space are amazingly the modern concepts.

Also critics such as Dr William Campbell and Sam Shamoun believed that semen is produced in the testes. Only in Modern times did science discover the truth (stated above). The Qu'ran is now 1500 years old and the sign it provided became fact in the modern era.

So next time you want to critise a verse please understand what the passage is getting at.

[AhmedBahgat]

Thanks Wise Guy

Yeh mate I was following it on FFI, thanks for adding it to FI, great info indeed

Cheers

[AhmedBahgat]

Thanks Wise Guy

Yeh mate I was following it on FFI, thanks for adding it to FI, great info indeed

Cheers

[WiseGuy]

Well I am offically banned from FFI lol

[AhmedBahgat]

[AhmedBahgat]

[Hindi]

There was a time when I was in College when I used to argue with the Christians and Hindus in defence of the Koran when I came across a verse in the Koran which says: "Do not argue with the unbelievers lest you become like them."

I thought over this verse and from that time onwards I stopped discussing or arguing with them on religion.

Nowadays I discuss with them only the Weather, or Politics, or Astrology.

I do not even share with Muslim brothers my discoveries in the Koran because I find they are "Muslim" in name only.

An intelligent and well learned person will discover many things in the Koran even though it is neither a Manual on Medicine or Astronomy.

So, WiseGuy, and Ahmad, thank you for sharing your discoveries with us on this site.

I too intend to share my discoveries on this site some time in the future.

Insha Allah!

Wish me luck.

[WiseGuy]

Nice post Hindi, much appreciated bro.

Ahmad I was banned for exposing pictures of MsWesterner and I challenged the Moderator in a PM.

I think it may have been the motherf****r comment to the ''M'' that got be banned the Hypocrate.

Lol Ahmad don't worry I will be back!

Take Care

[AhmedBahgat]

[AhmedBahgat]

[WiseGuy]

LOL No Ahmad I posted some pictures of a fat women stuffing her face with cake and informed everyone it was MsWesterner. A bit childish but funny.

Now I am completely banned from the forum, I cannot even view the discussion board. Oh well the cowards have proven thier worth.

[JungleBoy]

I don't understand this, but everytime I visit FFI even before logging in, my windows security software warns me of someone trying hard to hack or intrude into my computer. Can anyone help in this regard as to what's going on and what can be done. The ISP address that is displayed by my windows security is: http://dg.specificclick.net/jensondemo/smServlet.

[AhmedBahgat]

[AhmedBahgat]

[AhmedBahgat]

[AhmedBahgat]

[The]

[AhmedBahgat]

Hey wise guy

I joined you bro, they banned me today temporarly, I actually don't know why nor they sent me a PM to state their intention,. any way bro, I'm not going back again, there is nothing for me to learn there, I was just showing them that i can be a real asshole of a Muslim and can take them all on, this won't change though, I'm going to continue doing it through my web site. I actually need to put more time into it and this came as a great and forced help, i just enjoyed annoying them and surely I succeeded, there is nothing more to prove

take care bro

[AhmedBahgat]

Hey wise guy

I joined you bro, they banned me today temporarly, I actually don't know why nor they sent me a PM to state their intention,. any way bro, I'm not going back again, there is nothing for me to learn there, I was just showing them that i can be a real asshole of a Muslim and can take them all on, this won't change though, I'm going to continue doing it through my web site. I actually need to put more time into it and this came as a great and forced help, i just enjoyed annoying them and surely I succeeded, there is nothing more to prove

take care bro