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Windsor wrote:
Quote:
Thenk you brother Windsor, I hope you have answered Aksel, Ankersen question directed to you,
I have just done so.
Please keep us updated with their responses.
Thanks bro for your contribution
I will keep you updated, they are reading it, be assured
Posted:
Tue 11 Nov, 2008 6:38 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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It is about time for Slam dunk # 28
A confused kafir bound to hell from FFI raised the following Tom and Jerry argument regarding the prohibition of Alcohol:
Disguised wrote:
When We look at Islam ,We find that Liquors are banned and prohibited, Even Harsh Punishment awaits those who drink.However, When you ponder on Islam and Investigate it from its core, you will find the un-expected. We shall prove that the Quran doesnt prohibit Liquor and that Muhammad did Drink Liquor.
Refuting the Ban of Alcohol in the Quran
Let Us first examine the Quranic verses that are supposed to ban Alcoholic Drinks , and We shall refute them:
Quran 2:219 ''They ask you concerning alcoholic drinks and Games of Chance, Say:In them are harm and goods for men,but their harm exceeds their good effects.''
It only says that there is harm in alcoholic drinks, and if you drink too much ,I agree that it will harm you, but it doesnt prohibit it here.
Firstly, the ignorant brought in a flawed translation which translated the clear Arabic word إِثْمٌ , Ithim, as harm
Hahahaha, Ithim means Sin, you stupid ignorant, let?????????????????????¢??s look at the correct translation by Free Islam:
They ask you regarding the alcohol and the gambling; say: In both there is a great sin and means of benefit for the people, and its sin is greater than its benefit. And they ask you regarding what they should spend; say: Pardon others. Thus does Allah explain to you the signs that you may ponder- [Al Quran ; 2:219]
يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ قُلْ فِيهِمَا إِثْمٌ كَبِيرٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَإِثْمُهُمَآ أَكْبَرُ مِن نَّفْعِهِمَا وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ مَاذَا يُنفِقُونَ قُلِ الْعَفْوَ كَذَلِكَ يُبيِّنُ اللّهُ لَكُمُ الآيَاتِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَفَكَّرُونَ (219)
-> Clear from the above that Allah is telling us that in Alcohol there is a GREAT ITHIM, i.e. in Alcohol there is a GREAT SIN
Let?????????????????????¢??s now see what Allah has prohibited:
Say: Indeed My Lord has prohibited the indecencies, what is apparent of them and what is concealed, and the sin and the trespasses without justice, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority, and that you say against Allah what you do not know.
-> See what Allah has prohibited: Say: Indeed My Lord has prohibited the indecencies, what is apparent of them and what is concealed, and the ITHIM, i.e. Say: Indeed My Lord has prohibited the indecencies, what is apparent of them and what is concealed, and the sin
-> See, in 2:219 Allah is telling us that in Alcohol there is a great ITHIM and in 7:33 Allah is telling us that ITHIM is haram (prohibited)
HOW CLEAR is it for the dumb ignorant disguised
Let me give you another hint to how ignorant such kafir is:
We never read in the Quran that Allah HARRAM Zina, i.e. Allah prohibited adultery, however we read that Adultery is FAHISHA (Indecency), now if we look at 7:33 we read in it that Allah prohibited Al Fawahish, i.e. Allah has prohibited indecencies, i.e. Zina is haram
And this should be enough for:
# 28
Posted:
Mon 17 Nov, 2008 4:20 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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misan wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
elle wrote:
Is there a verse in the Qur'an about whether alcohol is Haram or Halal?
Yeh ignorant, there is:
They ask you regarding the alcohol and the gambling; say: In both there is a great sin and means of benefit for the people, and its sin is greater than its benefit. And they ask you regarding what they should spend; say: Pardon others. Thus does Allah explain to you the signs that you may ponder- [Al Quran ; 2:219]
يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ قُلْ فِيهِمَا إِثْمٌ كَبِيرٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَإِثْمُهُمَآ أَكْبَرُ مِن نَّفْعِهِمَا وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ مَاذَا يُنفِقُونَ قُلِ الْعَفْوَ كَذَلِكَ يُبيِّنُ اللّهُ لَكُمُ الآيَاتِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَفَكَّرُونَ (219)
-> Clear from the above that Allah is telling us that in Alcohol there is a GREAT ITHIM, i.e. in Alcohol there is a GREAT SIN
Let?????????????????????¢??s now see what Allah has prohibited:
Say: Indeed My Lord has prohibited the indecencies, what is apparent of them and what is concealed, and the sin and the trespasses without justice, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority, and that you say against Allah what you do not know.
-> See what Allah has prohibited: Say: Indeed My Lord has prohibited the indecencies, what is apparent of them and what is concealed, and the ITHIM, i.e. Say: Indeed My Lord has prohibited the indecencies, what is apparent of them and what is concealed, and the sin
-> See, in 2:219 Allah is telling us that in Alcohol there is a great ITHIM and in 7:33 Allah is telling us that ITHIM is haram (prohibited)
HOW CLEAR is it for the dumb ignorant kafirs?
Thank you very much for a very scholarly reply. Very good reasoning, I must say. I did not know that Koran has spoken on this.
By the way, I do not drink too much and will cut it down after reading what you wrote above.
Thanks and I am impressed.
Actually it was explained to me by a Muslim woman who was a member on my web site, very knowledgeable and respected candian lady, but she quickly left after I started my style of free speech on my site, as well my very profane movies replying to the enemy of Islam, so she got angry and asked me to delete her account, it was like she did not want her name to be associated with free islam, a request that I respected straightaway, I actually admired her a lot and even considered her a real sister and a friend, so I granted her wish without knowing that if I delete her account, all her comments will be deleted, and that is exactly what happened, it was a great loss to me indeed and I was a bit sad about it, but I decided how I will use free islam before even launching it, which is nothing more or less that what I do on other web sites, and I will never change, I tried to explain to her that this is what should happen
an eye for an eye
an insult for an insult
a mock for a mock
and a cartoon for a cartoon
which I see it very fair, it is like if you donot want to be mocked, then do not mock others. very simple I say
I actually find my style very easy to live with than a typical style of being polite which looks very submissive and as you may know that I only submit to Allah, this is how I call myself a Muslim, this submissive style comes with very irritating feelings, which is so irritating to a degree that it will be better just to leave such sites and close my web site and just go on with my life ignoring all around me which I can do with ease but that is not what I want to do, I am not going to ignore everything around me especially those things related to the religion, this has put me into two frontlines fighting two totally different groups, the Mushrikoon from the Muslims and the Kafiroon from the rest. imagine now being polite with such very malice and tough frontlines, I will be eaten with ease, that is why why you see Muslims on anti Islam web sites comes and go, you hardly see one that is consistent, adamant and serious
Anyway, sorry for the broing crap above, welcome to the forum, let me go back to verse 7:33 and add something to it
can you see what is also mentioned clearly as HARAM?, it is SHIRK, see: Say: Indeed My Lord has prohibited ......... that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority,, AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT AL MUSHRIKOON FROM THE MUSLIMS DO, the first frontline I decided to confront
And here is the last thing in the same verse that is mentioned as HARAM: Say: Indeed My Lord has prohibited ......... that you say against Allah what you do not know. AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT AL KAFIROON FROM THE NON MUSLIMS DO, the second frontline I decided to confront. Now concentrate with me regarding such amazing discovery in the same verse:
I know from the Quran that every Mushrik is a Kafir but not every Kafir is a Mushrik, Satan is such example of a Kafir who was not a Mushrik, in fact you will never read such description of SHIRK about Satan in the Quran
Now if you have ever read in great details what Al Mushrikoon from the Muslims follow "the man made books of hearsay hadith", you will clearly see that Al Mushrikoon also do what Al kafiroon do, which is explained earlier in this comment, i.e. while Al Mushrikoon shirk Allah laws with some other laws that He sent no authority, THEY ALSO SAY THINGS ABOUT ALLAH WHICH THEY DO NOT KNOW, SEE HOW EVERY MUSHRIK IS A KAFIR, HOW AMAZING
Cheers
Posted:
Tue 18 Nov, 2008 2:18 am
openurmind
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Hi Ahmed,
how are you bro? need to talk to you.
Skype: openurfmind
Posted:
Wed 19 Nov, 2008 9:30 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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openurmind wrote:
Hi Ahmed,
how are you bro? need to talk to you.
Skype: openurfmind
Hey dear brother
I am good man, I am hoping to see you soon inshaallah
my mic on my laptop is fuked up mate, I am waiting for my VOIP modem and when it comes I will call you using VOIP, I believe you have it too, right?
Take care mate
Posted:
Wed 19 Nov, 2008 9:51 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Ahmed Bahgat wrote:
They ask you regarding the alcohol and the gambling; say: In both there is a great sin and means of profit for the people, and its sin is greater than its profit. And they ask you regarding what they should spend; say: Pardon others. Thus does Allah explain to you the signs that you may ponder-
[Al Quran ; 2:219]
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
I underlined the word alcohol because the Arabic word used in the Qur'an is khamr. Al khamr is any fermented fruit juice or drink that is an inebriant or intoxicant.
Hello Z_R
Firstly I would like to thank you for helping me continuing my Slam Dunk Show, I really appreciate it, you know I am aiming at 100 slams then possibly retire from FFI, so we still have a very long time, therefore I will take the chance of replying to your comment in which I have noticed that you raised a new argument supported with Quran verses in Arabic and English (very much appreciated) and make the 29 slam dunk
Now, in reply to what you said above, yes that is what I meant exactly, a food that has been left to ferment which resulted in Khamr, I just used the common word for Khamr in English, however if you may suggest a better word to use in my translation, I won?????????????????????¢??t be unthankful to you
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
There has to be enough alcohol in a beverage before it can be an inebriant or intoxicant.
We are talking technically in here, let?????????????????????¢??s just assume that the moment it started to ferment is the moment it became Khamr, which means that is what the verse is talking about, and in this case drinking it is Haram, because it is associated with great sin, and Allah has forbidden the sin.
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
The word for alcohol in Arabic is kohoul or al kohoul with the definite article "al".
I have agreed with that and asked you if you may suggest a better word in English for the Arabic word ?????????????????????¢??Khamr?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, i.e. any food that started to ferment
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Another Arabic word for alcohol is : الغول, "al-ghoul", found in Sura 37:47 as غول ghoul.
Well, you are certainly wrong in here, Ghoul can never be another word for Kohoul, let me bring the verse:
لَا فِيهَا غَوْلٌ وَلَا هُمْ عَنْهَا يُنْزَفُونَ (47)
[The Quran ; 37:47]
The verse above is describing the Khamr that will be served in the heaven, the verse says that such Khamr : لَا فِيهَا غَوْلٌ , La Fiha Ghoul, the Ghoul is anything that causes health issues accompanied with pain, see how the three common ones did:
YUSUFALI: Free from headiness; nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom.
PICKTHAL: Wherein there is no headache nor are they made mad thereby.
SHAKIR: There shall be no trouble in it, nor shall they be exhausted therewith.
I.e. the word Ghoul has nothing to do with the Arabic word Kohoul
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Alcohol was not discovered until it could be distilled out of fermented beverages.
If you mean that using the word Ghoul must be a contradiction because you think it means Kohoul while you also say that Kohoul was not discovered yet, then it has been proven above that you are wrong, and part of my slam has been dunked
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Now for something I have noticed regarding wine or intoxicants in Al Qur'an. Wine was considered good and it was a provision from Allah before it was prohibited.
Let?????????????????????¢??s refer to it as Khamr, so we avoid running into a technicality
Well, I do not think that Khamr as a drink was ever something good that was praised by Allah in the Quran, let me show you what you have missed in the verses you brought and by the end of it, we should reach our slam dunk # 29
Quote:
And from the fruits of date-palms and grapes, you derive strong drink and a goodly provision. Verily, therein is indeed a sign for people who have wisdom.
وَمِن ثَمَرَاتِ ٱلنَّخِيلِ وَٱلأَعْنَابِ تَتَّخِذُونَ مِنْهُ سَكَراً وَرِزْقاً حَسَناً إِنَّ فِي ذٰلِكَ لآيَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ
An-Nahl 16:67
The Verse above never said that Khamr that causes intoxication is good, the verse above is actually talking about another sign which is clearly stated at the beginning of the verse, see:
-> وَمِنْ ثَمَرَاتِ النَّخِيلِ وَالْأَعْنَابِ , Wa Min Thamarat Alnakhil Wa Alanaab, i.e. And of the produce of the palm trees and the vine, clearly the verse is talking about some plant produce that the human may use it in two different ways as the verse next explained: تَتَّخِذُونَ مِنْهُ سَكَرًا , Tatakhizoon Minhu Sakara, i.e. you obtain from them intoxicant , this can never be some sort of praise to the Khamr, RATHER a fact that is stated by Allah about what we may be doing with such produce of the palm trees and vine, then the verse told us another possible fact about such produce of palm trees and vine, see: وَرِزْقًا حَسَنًا , Wa Rizqan Hasana, i.e. and goodly provision , i.e. we may sell such produce of palm trees and vine and make some money of it as a provision,
Making money by selling such produce must be good THAT IS WHY it was praised, ie. For us to sell it for a provision is HASAN, i.e. good, THE VERSE NEVER SAID THAT MAKING KHAMR OF SUCH PRODUCE IS GOOD, and this is where you missed out.
The verse then ended by elaborating that what was just been told about the produce IS A SIGN FOR THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Then intoxicating drinks were forbidden and considered as an abomiation of Shaitan.
Quote:
O you who believe! Intoxicants (wine), gambling, Al????????????????????????????Ans????????????????????????????¢b, and Al????????????????????????????Azl????????????????????????????¢m (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shait????????????????????????????¢n's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful. Shait????????????????????????????¢n (Satan) wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of All????????????????????????????¢h and from As-Sal????????????????????????????¢t (the prayer). So, will you not then abstain?
The verse above does not prohibit drinking Al Khamr, the verse above only said to avoid it, FA IGTANIBUH
The prohibition of Khamr can only be proved in the Quran by using 2:219 & 7:33 together
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Finally faithful followers will enjoy rivers of pure sealed wine in Paradise.
But we are talking about totally different phase of life in there, so why you are comparing apples with oranges then make them the same?
Quote:
Verily, Al-Abr????????????????????????????¢r (the pious who fear All????????????????????????????¢h and avoid evil) will be in delight (Paradise). On thrones, looking (at all things). You will recognise in their faces the brightness of delight. They will be given to drink pure sealed wine. The last thereof (that wine) will be the smell of musk, and for this let (all) those strive who want to strive (i.e. hasten earnestly to the obedience of All????????????????????????????¢h). It (that wine) will be mixed with Tasn????????????????????????????®m. A spring whereof drink those nearest to All????????????????????????????¢h. Al-Mutaffif????????????????????????????®n 83:22-28
That?????????????????????¢??s right, and certainly we are talking about totally different Khamr:
1) It tastes good
2) It does not cause headache
3) It does not cause us to lose our minds
Therefore the Quran in there is talking about totally something else than the Khamr on earth, and as you know the Khamr on earth causes the followings:
1) It tastes shit
2) It causes headache
3) It causes us to lose our minds and look fools
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
In conclusion, the Qur'an states that wine is a provision from Allah
WRONG, the Quran only said that THE PRODUCE OF THE PALM TREES AND VINE is what may be a good provision, obviously by selling such produce in the fruit market for example
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
and then states that it is an abomination of Shaitan.
Of course, He said so about the Khamr the human make on earth which as we know:
1) It tastes shit
2) It causes headache
3) It causes us to lose our minds and look fools
I.e. the Khamr which the humans make on earth must be an abomination of Shaitan
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
This is a contradiction for rational thinkers.
And this is slam dunk # 29 for any rational thinker who is not pre programmed:
# 29
Posted:
Thu 20 Nov, 2008 5:39 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Hello HM
It is my pleasure HM to come and slam dunk you, I actually read every word in your comment and discovered at least 5 flaws but if you make 10 you will make it to my Slam Dunk Show, but as I read and especially when I reached the Nasa bit (hahaha), I said to myself, what a jerk you are, this thread must be dismissed and not replied to, however when I reached the end and read your desire to be slam dunked by me, I decided to grant you your wish.
Let me see what you have to say and how many stupid arguments you came up with:
Haik Monsieur wrote:
In Quran, Muslims?????????????????????¢?? holy book,
Hmmm, are you that dumb bum?
Every one knows that the Quran is the Muslims?????????????????????¢?? holy book, what is new?
The way you write your words indicates that you have no intellect whosoever, possibly you just wanted to make your comment a bit bigger, you know, you like it big, I guess.
Haik Monsieur wrote:
we see Allah often depicted as the creator and sustainer of this universe.
Indeed
Haik Monsieur wrote:
But more importantly, it is said; he has a throne and he is firmly seated on it.
Well, I will agree with the first part, that He has a throne, however I totally disagree with the second part, I believe the Quran never said that Allah is firmly seated on His throne, for many reasons:
1) The word Istawa in Arabic, does not mean ?????????????????????¢??firmly seated?????????????????????¢??, rather (direct an attention to)
2) The throne is not a chair only, rather a chair and many other things in its vicinity, i.e. Allah may not sit on the throne, rather Allah may sit on the chair that is part of His throne.
This is your stupidity # 1
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Let us just have a look on this glorious throne in which the creator and sustainer of this universe is seated.
Wrong again, this is how you should say it, you ignorant:
Haik Monsieur should have said it like this wrote:
Let us just have a look on this glorious throne in which the creator and sustainer of this universe MAY BE SEATED ON A CHAIR WITHIN HIS THRONE.
Haik Monsieur wrote:
In Quran Chapter Hud: I will paste the verses in Arabic here though I had stopped this practice.
Actually, you may increase the odds of getting a reply from me if you post the Arabic text
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Plight necessitates it so please pardon this inaptness. The transliteration and translation will follow Arabic verses:
With me, the Arabic verses IS A MUST, I believe you are after a reply from a Muslim, not from one of the ignorant kafir goons, right?
Therefore stop licking arses because you are posting it to the Muslims, not to them
I have finished the draft for this Sura, so I have to bring Free Islam translation in here:
And it is He Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and His throne is over the water, that He might test you, which of you is best in deed, and if you have said: Indeed you shall be resurrected after death, those who have disbelieved would certainly say: This is nothing but obvious magic. [Al Quran ; 11:7]
وَهُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ وَكَانَ عَرْشُهُ عَلَى الْمَاءِ لِيَبْلُوَكُمْ أَيُّكُمْ أَحْسَنُ عَمَلًا ۗ وَلَئِنْ قُلْتَ إِنَّكُمْ مَبْعُوثُونَ مِنْ بَعْدِ الْمَوْتِ لَيَقُولَنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِنْ هَٰذَا إِلَّا سِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ (7)
He it is who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters [Quran 11:7]
This is how I will take only take it, there is a WAW at the beginning of the verse, i.e. the verse must start with AND:
And it is He Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and His throne is over the water,
This is your stupidity # 2
Haik Monsieur wrote:
I would urge readers to take particular care on the word Arsh which is bolded in Arabic and the transliteration because it is going to be important here. This thread is about the throne of Allah so the word ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? should be noted.
I have taken note
I hope you also take note of your two stupidities, so far
Haik Monsieur wrote:
We know from Quran Allah?????????????????????¢??s throne was over the waters.
Of course
Haik Monsieur wrote:
It is somewhere in heavens where rivers flow and Allah?????????????????????¢??s throne happened to be over the water= means it should necessarily be in any of the rivers.
Hahahaha, funny indeed, stop wishful thinking your jerk
The Quran never said that the throne of Allah is over rivers, it only said the throne is OVER WATER, you manipulator
OVER WATER may mean any of the followings:
1) Over a lake
2) Over a sea
3) Over an ocean
4) Over a river
5) Over a canal
6) Over something that is made of water that we yet do not know what it is.
Therefore when you said: water= means it should necessarily be in any of the rivers., it means nothing but you are a dumb bum.
This is your stupidity # 3
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Allah does not stop by simply stating his throne was over waters, but he continues in his glorious book: Chapter Al-Radd:
(Allahullatzee rafa?????????????????????¢??a al samawati bighyri amadin tarounaha thummastawa ala al Arsh)
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Allah is He who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne [Quran.13:2]
This verse is also finished in my translation, so let me bring it in here:
Allah is He Who lifted the heavens without any pillars that you see, then He directed His attention to the throne, and He has subjected the sun and the moon (so) each runs to an appointed time; He regulates the affair, He explains the signs that you may be of the meeting your Lord assured. [Al Quran ; 13:2]
اللَّهُ الَّذِي رَفَعَ السَّمَاوَاتِ بِغَيْرِ عَمَدٍ تَرَوْنَهَا ۖ ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ ۖ وَسَخَّرَ الشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ ۖ كُلٌّ يَجْرِي لِأَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى ۚ يُدَبِّرُ الْأَمْرَ يُفَصِّلُ الْآيَاتِ لَعَلَّكُمْ بِلِقَاءِ رَبِّكُمْ تُوقِنُونَ (2)
Haik Monsieur wrote:
So we have seen how Allah is established (?) on his throne after raising heavens without pillars..!
Wrong, what the verses said is the following:
Allah directed His attention to His throne then raised the heavens without pillars THAT WE SEE, i.e. there might be pillars but we just can not see it YET. Also if Allah may reside on something, He would have resided on the chair within His throne.
This is your stupidity # 4
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Now, about throne, the word in Quran is Arsh,
Yes
Haik Monsieur wrote:
which is sometimes manipulated by Muslims to translate as ?????????????????????¢??Dominion?????????????????????¢??????????????????????.
Well, forget about those Muslims for now, I totally agree with you that Arsh means Throne
And I am sure that you would agree with me that a chair is part of a throne
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Muslims are embarrassed on the apparent ridicule of their god seating on a throne
As I said, forget about those Muslims, let?????????????????????¢??s keep it between me and you, now, the one who should be embarrassed is you, who so far proved to be stupid 4 times, as I said to you no one sits on the throne rather they sit on a chair that is part of a throne
Haik Monsieur wrote:
which is over the waters in somewhere in heaven. God; the creator and sustainer of this universe is seated on a throne in heavens? Where can it be? NASA couldn?????????????????????¢??t yet locate it.
How stupid you are, another Tom and Jerry crap by you, well, if God may seat on something, He will be seating on His chair within His throne, and let me tell ya, His chair is bigger that the heavens and eart, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
Allah, there is no god but He, the Alive, the Self-Subsisting; slumber does not apply to Him nor sleep; to Him is whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth; who is he that can intercede with Him but with His permission? He knows what is in front of them and what is behind them, and they can not comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He wished, His chair extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them (the heavens and the earth) tires Him not, and He is the Sublime, the Great. [Al Quran ; 2:255]
اللَّهُ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ الْحَيُّ الْقَيُّومُ ۚ لَا تَأْخُذُهُ سِنَةٌ وَلَا نَوْمٌ ۚ لَهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ ۗ مَنْ ذَا الَّذِي يَشْفَعُ عِنْدَهُ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِهِ ۚ يَعْلَمُ مَا بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمَا خَلْفَهُمْ ۖ وَلَا يُحِيطُونَ بِشَيْءٍ مِنْ عِلْمِهِ إِلَّا بِمَا شَاءَ ۚ وَسِعَ كُرْسِيُّهُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ ۖ وَلَا يَئُودُهُ حِفْظُهُمَا ۚ وَهُوَ الْعَلِيُّ الْعَظِيمُ (255)
-> See you dumb: ۚ وَسِعَ كُرْسِيُّهُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ , Wasaa Kursayahu Alsamawat Wa Alard, i.e. His chair extends over the heavens and the earth , i.e. His chair alone is bigger than the heavens and earth, imagine the throne where the chair is part of it, now how come Nasa will find something in the heavens (assuming that they can see it all despite the fact of the matter that they can only see 13 billion light years NO MORE) while that thing is BIGGER that the heavens itself
It is impossible for A be within B if A is far bigger than B
This is your stupidity # 5
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Now: Those Muslims who wants to argue ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? does not mean a throne-chair
Hahahaha, now we are talking
Arsh can not mean chair, you ignorant
Kursy is the Arabic word for chair
Arsh means throne
The Kursy (chair) is part of the Arsh (throne)
This is your stupidity # 6
Haik Monsieur wrote:
just have a look at the following verses of your Quran: Before going to the verses, I want to explain the context. In Quran there is a chapter named Joseph. It is the story of Joseph a Biblical prophet. As the story moves on, Joseph who was put in jail once but later became on the level of a ruler of Egypt, summoned up his parents when his luck began to shine. See in Quran how he treated his parents:
(Wa Rafa?????????????????????¢??a Abawaihi ala Al-Arshi Wa kharroo lahu Sujjadan Waqala ya Abati haza taeweelu ru?????????????????????¢??yaya min qablu qad ja?????????????????????¢??alaha rabbee haqan)
Bolded red in Arabic, it reads ?????????????????????¢??al-Arsh?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
EXACTLY, Yusuf RAISED his parents on the throne, i.e. they climbed up on the throne, it is not like both his parents will sit on the one chair on the throne, looks like you slam dunked yourself
Haik Monsieur wrote:
And he placed his parents on the throne and they fell down before him prostrate, and he said: O my father! This is the interpretation of my dream of old which my Sustainer has made come true..[Quran. 12:100]
Well, the translation above is flawed, here is what it should be according to Free Islam:
And he raised his parents upon the throne and they fell before him prostrating, and he (Yusuf) said: O my father! This is the interpretation of my vision of before; certainly my Lord has made it true; and certainly He was kind with me when He took me out from the prison and brought you from the desert after the Shaitan had induced between me and my brothers, indeed, my Lord is Subtle to whom He wills; indeed, He is the all-Knowing, the all-Wise. [Al Quran ; 12:100]
وَرَفَعَ أَبَوَيْهِ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ وَخَرُّوا لَهُ سُجَّدًا ۖ وَقَالَ يَا أَبَتِ هَٰذَا تَأْوِيلُ رُؤْيَايَ مِنْ قَبْلُ قَدْ جَعَلَهَا رَبِّي حَقًّا ۖ وَقَدْ أَحْسَنَ بِي إِذْ أَخْرَجَنِي مِنَ السِّجْنِ وَجَاءَ بِكُمْ مِنَ الْبَدْوِ مِنْ بَعْدِ أَنْ نَزَغَ الشَّيْطَانُ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ إِخْوَتِي ۚ إِنَّ رَبِّي لَطِيفٌ لِمَا يَشَاءُ ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ (100)
-> See: وَرَفَعَ أَبَوَيْهِ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ , Wa Rafaa Abawayhi Ala Alarsh, And he raised his parents upon the throne , and while they are there: وَخَرُّوا لَهُ سُجَّدًا , Wa Kharro Lahu Sujudda, i.e. and they fell before him prostrating, , i.e. they were not sitting on any chairs, rather raised to the throne level (AS ANY THRONE IS RAISED UP), and while they are there, they prostrated to him.
You confirmed yourself slam
This is your stupidity # 7
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Here in this verse you can see the same word that is used to denote where Allah is seated in heaven. ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? This is Quran and no Muslim can escape. Joseph placed his parents on ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? = ?????????????????????¢??Throne, Chair?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
Your ignorance is highlighted in points:
1) the Quran never said that Allah is seated over a throne
2) Yusuf did not PLACE his parents over the throne RATHER he raised them over the throne
3) Arsh in Arabic can not mean Throne, Chair, rather Throne alone
4) Kursy in Arabic means Chair
This is your stupidity # 8
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Bottom line: Islam?????????????????????¢??s god is seated on a throne that is situated over waters in heaven.
Repeating your ignorance won?????????????????????¢??t help you escaping your self embarrassment, however just by thinking so, it must be another stupidity that you made:
This is your stupidity # 9
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Muslims try to conciliate to this obvious mockery by retranslating Quranic phrase ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? as ?????????????????????¢??dominion?????????????????????¢??????????????????????. But their own Quran testifies ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? simply means a material ?????????????????????¢??Throne or Chair?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
Same argument in my last paragraph applies:
Repeating your ignorance won?????????????????????¢??t help you escaping your self embarrassment, however just by thinking so, it must be another stupidity that you made:
This is your stupidity # 10
Congratulation pal, you have made it to my Slam Dunk Show, what an achievement
Haik Monsieur wrote:
PS: I did not use any hadiths in this post because I want our slam dunker Quran expert to come up and refute this post if he can.
Hmmmm, your wish is granted and you have been slam dunked hard, however you should be proud of yourself because you still made it to my Slam Dunk Show, well done.
# 30
Posted:
Sun 23 Nov, 2008 9:11 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Ahmed,
I do not want any share from your slime dunk. So, I post my rebuttal in here where it would be more appropriate.
Sure, but if you will be slammed again, I must add it to my show, you know, I am aiming at 100 slams
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello HM
It is my pleasure HM to come and slam dunk you, I actually read every word in your comment and discovered at least 5 flaws but if you make 10 you will make it to my Slam Dunk Show, but as I read and especially when I reached the Nasa bit (hahaha), I said to myself, what a jerk you are, this thread must be dismissed and not replied to, however when I reached the end and read your desire to be slam dunked by me, I decided to grant you your wish.
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Well Ahmed Bahgat, I know you are too much into my posts because I enthral you a lot. :p You are not the sole soul, but in fact I have many real fans here in FFI and other various web Forums plus in my real life too.
You are very famous, how about an applude:
Clap clap clap
But please don?????????????????????¢??t flatter yourself too much
Haik Monsieur wrote:
So, there is nothing of earthquaking importance when you say you read every bit of my posts. There is nothing wrong in pursuing me posts after posts too because as a professional, I can assure you; obsession is beyond your restraint. However you try to suppress it, you will fail and it would be obsession that wins always.
To be honest, I read your crap and laugh all the time, but if we talk obsession, yes I am obsessed with the enemy of my religion, I will never leave them in peace, I guess you should know that already by now.
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Do you feel like I am buffing up myself?
Not sure what buffing means, nor that I want to know, however if I feel something about you, then I feel that you boofheading youself
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Feel free to feel so. Sometimes self-flattery too is needed to counter guys like you.. :dork:
But please do not flatter yourself too much
Haik Monsieur wrote:
In Quran, Muslims?????????????????????¢?? holy book,
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hmmm, are you that dumb bum?
Every one knows that the Quran is the Muslims?????????????????????¢?? holy book, what is new?
The way you write your words indicates that you have no intellect whosoever, possibly you just wanted to make your comment a bit bigger, you know, you like it big, I guess.
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Here you go...,
I think Mr. Bahgat, you should leave English for native speakers.
So why you are not leaving the Arabic to its native speakers then?
Look, if you do not, I will not
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Once you asked me of my profession and I didn?????????????????????¢??t answer you at that time. It was not because of any pique towards you, but as one who is doing a lot of jobs at the same time, I can?????????????????????¢??t precisely tell you what exactly my profession is. I am an all-rounder if you want to know and journalism is one of the many fields I excel.
Most journalists are liars, therefore I am not surprised that lying is part of your profession
Haik Monsieur wrote:
So, it is a journalistic approach.
Yeh yeh, we know it well, it is like any thing goes as long as crowd is attracted, but hey, try to attract some intelligent crowed instead of the dumb goons of FFI
Haik Monsieur wrote:
First to begin with stating what is generally known. I just adopted that mode of writing and there is nothing for you to make fun of. Poor humour is nauseating and when it comes from a man who does not have the sense of wittiness, it becomes worse. So, keep restraint from commenting on something you aren?????????????????????¢??t accustomed to.
To be honest, what you said above fits you like a glove, I have read some of the humour you wrote, it was so sick pal, please do not ever try to work as stand up comedian, try a stand up clown, it suits you like a glove
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Well, I will agree with the first part, that He has a throne, however I totally disagree with the second part, I believe the Quran never said that Allah is firmly seated on His throne, for many reasons:
1) The word Istawa in Arabic, does not mean ?????????????????????¢??firmly seated?????????????????????¢??, rather (direct an attention to)
2) The throne is not a chair only, rather a chair and many other things in its vicinity, i.e. Allah may not sit on the throne, rather Allah may sit on the chair that is part of His throne.
Haik Monsieur wrote:
I think Ahmed; you haven?????????????????????¢??t got my argument at all.
You have no argument from the first place, you failed to tell us what contradiction you are talking about, all you ignorantly said that Allah has a throne above water then suggested that the water must be reviers, then you alleged that the god should not have a throne above water
Why the god can not have a throne above water, mister HM?
Haik Monsieur wrote:
I am not interested in this acrobatics with ?????????????????????¢??Istawa?????????????????????¢??????????????????????.
Then concede that it means what I said, i.e. Direct an attention to, your words, leave the language to its native speakers
Haik Monsieur wrote:
My purpose is to demolish the Muslim claim ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? means dominion
Then we have nothing to debate, because as I said that Arsh in Arabic means a place of someone with a mighty power to appear in it for some people, the most suitable English word as far as I know is Throne, the Atsh consists of a few things including a chair for such entity with mighty power to sit on it if desired
Now if you know any better English word that suits that description be my guest to suggest it, but I won?????????????????????¢??t accept that Arsh means chair because Kursy is the Arabic word to mean chair, and the Quran used the word twice, one to describe the chair of Allah, and the other is about King Solaiman who was sitting while being sick on his chair within his throne
Haik Monsieur wrote:
and I did it in my post. If ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? as we found in Quran is a throne ?????????????????????¢?? chair,
Wrong you idiot, Arsh in the quran can never mean a chair, rather Kursy in the Quran is the word for chair, for how long you will insist on your ignaorance?
Would that be part of youe schema that you can not allow the Muslim argument to win?
Well, that is not my argument you dumb, this was a Quran argument, i.e. I did not invent anything, if the west think of a throne that it is also a chair, then the west are as dumb and confused as you are
Haik Monsieur wrote:
then the phrase ?????????????????????¢??Istawa?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? can by all means be translated as seated.
No you ignorant, if the word Arsh does not mean chair, then the word Istawa can never mean seated, are you that foolish?
Haik Monsieur wrote:
After all, even if your argument is right,
My argument is 100% right, no question about it, now, the likes of some goons like filthy/racist khazandra and you will never accept defeat by a Muslim, you already admitted that, remember?
Haik Monsieur wrote:
it tells me Allah attended to his throne = seated on it.
I never said the word Istawa means attend you blind, I said Istawa means ?????????????????????¢??Direct an attention to?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, stop being dumb, the Quran never said that Allah is sitting over anything, however I do not deny that Allah may sit over something if He desires, that something was clearly mentioned in the Quran: Kursayahu i.e. His chair, not His throne, you confused
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Sorry man. I can?????????????????????¢??t bear your stupidity at all.
Obviously you are more stupid, because it seems that you are bearing my stupidity and will continue to reply to my comment, see
Haik Monsieur wrote:
What does it mean chair within his throne?
It means that the chair is part of the throne, i.e. there are other things that constitute a throne, not just a chair, for example there might be a table in front of the throne, you know like a coffee table , as well the whole thing must be raised above ground, and that is also part of the throne
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Do you know what are you talking about?
Of course I do, we are talking Arabic words, aren?????????????????????¢??t we
What we are talking about is the Arabic word Arsh, and the Arabic word Kursy, both are used in the Quran and you are only using the Quran to prove your crap, therefore the Quran slam dunked you and exposed your ignorance
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Check any dictionary and get the meaning of throne.
Are you confused, I do not need to check English dictionaries you stupid, we are talking Arabic words, Throne & Kursy, why don?????????????????????¢??t you check some Arabic dictionaries yourself?
Haik Monsieur wrote:
It is synonymous with chair
synonymousity is in your Barbie world, in the Quran world, it is totally different story, if the Quran used both words (Arsh & Kursy) explicitly, then synonymous my arse.
Haik Monsieur wrote:
and when you say ?????????????????????¢??seated in a chair within a throne?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? that triggers laughs because what you effectively state is ?????????????????????¢??seated in a chair within a chair?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
Look, it is me who can not bear your stupidity however I will continue till a certain part in your crap then dismiss the rest, this is how I prove to you that I can?????????????????????¢??t bear your stupidity
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Do you think it makes a lot of sense?
For a dumb bum like you and a racist freak like khazandra, of course it won?????????????????????¢??t make any sense
Haik Monsieur wrote:
First of all Ahmed, mind your language.
With you, it can not be, when I see you respecting my fellow Muslim brothers and sisters who join this site, you will be respected, as you continue to act as the lowest of the lows do in contempt against my religions followers you will never have an atom weight of respect from me, I think my message is clear
Haik Monsieur wrote:
You have very very very bitter experience from me in the past and quite recently I did shut you up with your own medicine.
If you think that it is so bitter, then fine with me, why do you think that I should not be bitter with some lowest of the lows of an enemy who publicly and proudly say that he is living his life to destroy the religion of Islam?
You are such a clear cut jerk
Haik Monsieur wrote:
I have more than enough in my armoury to do it again,
Let?????????????????????¢??s get it on punk, it seems you have not seen my full on potential yet
Haik Monsieur wrote:
so keep the phrases like ?????????????????????¢??licking arses?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? for yourself and don?????????????????????¢??t use them against me again.
Sure, how about licking bums, would that be ok with you?
Haik Monsieur wrote:
You will get bloody beaten with your own medicine again. Take my words for it.
Stop talking the talk, try to walk the walk
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Secondly, this is an English forum and I don?????????????????????¢??t think it is apposite to paste Arabic in here.
Tough luck to the English speakers then.
Haik Monsieur wrote:
If you need Arabic, you can directly go to websites which offer you Arabic.
You do not tell me what I should do, It is going to always be myself who decides what I should do
Haik Monsieur wrote:
I am posting in this forum to alert infidels of the dangers of Islam and not for what you think like to get a response from Muslim.
What a confused liar you are, you already admitted that you are here to destroy the religion of Islam, it has nothing to do with infidels you coward, it is all aimed at the Muslims to destroy their religion, and I can assure you 100% and without an atom weight of doubt that you are failing.
Haik Monsieur wrote:
I have tired of Muslims because you guys are stuck in a specific backdrop of history without evolving. Consequently, you people can never offer any coherent arguments so I have stopped targeting you folks. My target audience is infidels who are surfing this forum to know of the real Islam.
Hahahahah, here is what you said you coward:
Haik Monsieur wrote:
We in FFI have a schema and to accomplish it, I can?????????????????????¢??t let your arguments win.
Haik Monsieur wrote:
After all, have you had a serene moment in your recent life to think what is FFI aiming for?Idiot; we never concealed our aim. Our aim is to destroy Islam.
That does not sound like making the infidels aware of my religion, rather your aim is to destroy Islam, your words
Haik Monsieur wrote:
So, I will chop off those unnecessary particles of your post and will not quote them. Only relevant parts will be quoted.
It makes no difference to me.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
This is how I will take only take it, there is a WAW at the beginning of the verse, i.e. the verse must start with AND:
And it is He Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and His throne is over the water,
This is your stupidity # 2
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Again sorry Ahmed, it is not stupidity. If you paid attention, you can see I haven?????????????????????¢??t even quoted verses in full. So, I should not necessarily translate it in its literal sense. All I had to do was to convey the message it carries. And I did it. Stop blabbering.
Ok, I will accept that
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hahahaha, funny indeed, stop wishful thinking your jerk
The Quran never said that the throne of Allah is over rivers, it only said the throne is OVER WATER, you manipulator
OVER WATER may mean any of the followings:
1) Over a lake
2) Over a sea
3) Over an ocean
4) Over a river
5) Over a canal
6) Over something that is made of water that we yet do not know what it is.
Therefore when you said: water= means it should necessarily be in any of the rivers., it means nothing but you are a dumb bum.
This is your stupidity # 3
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Again; vain acrobatics..! Mr. Bahgat, Quran says Allah?????????????????????¢??s throne is over the water = Mae. And the same Quran says there are rivers floating over the heavens. In many places we see these rivers ?????????????????????¢??Anhar?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? in Quran and they float over the heavens. So, it is not at all inapt to conclude when it says Allah?????????????????????¢??s throne is over the water, it should necessarily be in any of these rivers. It is really funny indeed and I agree with you. Funny part is the creator and sustainer of this universe is having a throne in somewhere in heavens over waters..!
And this is the part where I will stop but only after I will expose you again:
Firstly here is what another kafir is telling you on your thread you blind:
kereng wrote:
I think the "arsh over the waters" is not over the rivers in heaven.
Secondly, look at what you said:
Haik Monsieur wrote:
And the same Quran says there are rivers floating over the heavens. In many places we see these rivers ?????????????????????¢??Anhar?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? in Quran and they float over the heavens.
Hahahahahaahahahahahahaha
I challenge you mister confused, to show me one single verse where the Quran said that the rivers flaw OVER the heavens
In all the locations where Allah mentioned the rivers in heaven, it was always been said that the rivers flow UNDER the heaven Min Tahtiha
This clearly shows how confused you are and consequently I have to dismiss the rest of your crap because I had enough of it and can?????????????????????¢??t bear it any more
Haik Monsieur wrote:
Answered and it is your turn now. Tell us whether there are ?????????????????????¢??Anhar?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? = Rivers float in heavens.
Again, I will chop off irrelevant particles from your post. (I say this repeatedly because I don?????????????????????¢??t want to get blamed for not quoting you properly)
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Haik Monsieur wrote:
So we have seen how Allah is established (?) on his throne after raising heavens without pillars..!
Wrong, what the verses said is the following:
Allah directed His attention to His throne then raised the heavens without pillars THAT WE SEE, i.e. there might be pillars but we just can not see it YET. Also if Allah may reside on something, He would have resided on the chair within His throne.
This is your stupidity # 4
Ah?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦ your stupidity in stating chair within a chair is dealt above. If ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? is ?????????????????????¢??throne?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? it can also mean ?????????????????????¢??chair?????????????????????¢??????????????????????. Ask any native English speakers of this and confirm it yourself. I see Cassandra offering you a simple lesson. She is a native speaker btw.
So, if Allah has a chair over waters, he can sit on it and verses should necessarily mean it too. Otherwise I don?????????????????????¢??t think a chair is for simply viewing. Do you?
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Well, forget about those Muslims for now, I totally agree with you that Arsh means Throne
And I am sure that you would agree with me that a chair is part of a throne
I think we have no disagreements here except you stupidly argue ?????????????????????¢??chair is part of a throne?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? what the hell does it mean? It goes like ?????????????????????¢??Cake is the part of a cake?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
AhmedBahgat wrote:
As I said, forget about those Muslims, let?????????????????????¢??s keep it between me and you, now, the one who should be embarrassed is you, who so far proved to be stupid 4 times, as I said to you no one sits on the throne rather they sit on a chair that is part of a throne
Again the same baloney. Sorry Ahmed?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦ you are sometimes entertaining too. I have to take back my previous statement about you.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
How stupid you are, another Tom and Jerry crap by you, well, if God may seat on something, He will be seating on His chair within His throne, and let me tell ya, His chair is bigger that the heavens and eart, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
<snip>
It is impossible for A be within B if A is far bigger than B
This is your stupidity # 5
No Ahmed, this can be a contradiction then within Quran. Because if Allah?????????????????????¢??s throne is bigger than heaven and earth, you will have to argue the waters in which his throne is located is even bigger than it. Can you be more stupid than this? You mean the whole of universe is water? Where? We only know earth-our planet consists ????????????????????????????¾ of water and not heavens. In fact it is yet to discover water anywhere in other planets let alone in the whole of universe.
Why do your arguments always backfire Ahmed? Did you ever think of it? If not, get it right now. You are defending the indefensible. That?????????????????????¢??s all.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hahahaha, now we are talking
Arsh can not mean chair, you ignorant
Kursy is the Arabic word for chair
Arsh means throne
The Kursy (chair) is part of the Arsh (throne)
This is your stupidity # 6
Irrelevant; totally irrelevant because throne ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? is found in Quran to denote a chair too. Well, I am coming unto it.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
EXACTLY, Yusuf RAISED his parents on the throne, i.e. they climbed up on the throne, it is not like both his parents will sit on the one chair on the throne, looks like you slam dunked yourself
What da ya mean Ahmed?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦? You mean Joseph?????????????????????¢??s parents were climbing to heavens? NO man.., it merely states ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? can mean a material as a chair. Joseph placed his parents on Arsh means they seated on chair.
Is it hard to understand?
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Well, the translation above is flawed, here is what it should be according to Free Islam:
And he raised his parents upon the throne and they fell before him prostrating, and he (Yusuf) said: O my father! This is the interpretation of my vision of before; certainly my Lord has made it true; and certainly He was kind with me when He took me out from the prison and brought you from the desert after the Shaitan had induced between me and my brothers, indeed, my Lord is Subtle to whom He wills; indeed, He is the all-Knowing, the all-Wise.
<snip>
-> See: وَرَفَعَ أَبَوَيْهِ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ , Wa Rafaa Abawayhi Ala Alarsh, And he raised his parents upon the throne , and while they are there: وَخَرُّوا لَهُ سُجَّدًا , Wa Kharro Lahu Sujudda, i.e. and they fell before him prostrating, , i.e. they were not sitting on any chairs, rather raised to the throne level (AS ANY THRONE IS RAISED UP), and while they are there, they prostrated to him.
You confirmed yourself slam
This is your stupidity # 7
It seems like your stupidity has no limits. Joseph was not raising his parents above something supernatural.., not at all. He was merely letting them seated on throne. It can be a kingly throne since he was then a ruler there in Egypt. If you want to say Joseph raised his parents to a throne level, you bear the burden of telling us what does it mean raising to throne level; come on and don?????????????????????¢??t become an embarrassment for yourself.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Your ignorance is highlighted in points:
1) the Quran never said that Allah is seated over a throne
2) Yusuf did not PLACE his parents over the throne RATHER he raised them over the throne
3) Arsh in Arabic can not mean Throne, Chair, rather Throne alone
4) Kursy in Arabic means Chair
[/color]
This is your stupidity # 8
Sorry Ahmed, all these are effectively rebutted already. If Allah has a throne, he making (?????????????????????¢??Sawwa?????????????????????¢??????????????????????) should necessarily mean he is seating on it. And we saw throne does mean a chair.
Again, I chop off the rest of your post because they are the repetitions of the same nonsense you introduced already. I am not liable to answer them again and again and again.
I had to prove ?????????????????????¢??Arsh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? mean a material = ?????????????????????¢??Throne, Chair?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? and I did it. Now, if you have more arguments on it, come on pal?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦ but I think you have to reboot now before attempting for a second round with me?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Nosubmission wrote:
Well, the weird thing is that the same Arabic word ISTAWA is used in the following verses to denote the state of being SEATED:
[Surah 23.28]
And when you are firmly seated, you and those with you, in the ark, say: All praise is due to Allah who delivered us from the unjust people.
[Surah 43.13]
That you may firmly sit on their backs, then remember the favor of your Lord when you are firmly seated thereon, and say: Glory be to Him Who made this subservient to us and we were not able to do it.
Well, you actually reminded me with a very technical issue in the Arabic language regarding the word istawa, this is documented between myself and All_Brains on his web site a few months back
There are two devices that may come after the verb istawa
Istawa Ila = Direct an atnetion to
Istawa Ala = Established over
Some people may take the second one, Istawa Ala as seated on, which has to be wrong because seated means Qaeidoon, which is used many times in the Quran
Therefore if we read in any verse, Allah Istawa Ila, then it must mean Allah directed His attention to
If we read istawa Ala, then it must mean, Established over
In 23:28, it is Istawa Ala, i.e. Noah and his people were esatablished on the ship, i.e. embarked the ship, ie they are ridding the ship, in no way it means that they were seated on the ship,
in the second verse 43:13, it is the same meaning as 43:12, you can even see that the ship is mentioned in 23:27, i.e. istawa Ala means to ride, again it can never mean to sit down, or be seated
however if you say that most people while riding something, they are most likely will be seated, i say fine, but with many also they may not be seated, that is why we can not take Astawa Ala as seated on
*Note*, this means that my translation to some verses are wrong which will be recified when I go over the draft again
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Fri 28 Nov, 2008 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Sun 23 Nov, 2008 10:07 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Kafir Nosubmission of FFI made me aware of a mistake that I have done, the mistake has been rectified, here is the proper translation to 13:2
Allah is He Who lifted the heavens without any pillars that you see, then He established Himself over the throne, and He has subjected the sun and the moon (so) each runs to an appointed time; He regulates the affair, He explains the signs that you may be of the meeting your Lord assured. [Al Quran ; 13:2]
اللَّهُ الَّذِي رَفَعَ السَّمَاوَاتِ بِغَيْرِ عَمَدٍ تَرَوْنَهَا ۖ ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ ۖ وَسَخَّرَ الشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ ۖ كُلٌّ يَجْرِي لِأَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى ۚ يُدَبِّرُ الْأَمْرَ يُفَصِّلُ الْآيَاتِ لَعَلَّكُمْ بِلِقَاءِ رَبِّكُمْ تُوقِنُونَ (2)
Here is Yusuf Ali translation:
YUSUFALI:Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.
Posted:
Sun 23 Nov, 2008 10:30 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
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Post subject:
Salam Bro Watawasu
Look mate, the so called Tafsirs of al Quran by all such confused people was another fame game that all these people were playing, they just copied each other because they lack any atom weight of intellect to work it out themselves, exactly like the goons of FFI who copy those Mufasiroon crap while as well do not have an atom weight of intellect to realize their confusion
Let me now show you and show every goon on FFI, how they and their fellow confused Mufasiroon are LOGICALLY wrong, this is going to be another mother of all slams BTW
Those Mufasiroon are basing their tafsir to 65:4 on the fake crap of hadith b y Bukhari and others in which the so called Aysha claimed that the prophet married her at 6 and consumed his marriage when she was 9, which means that he had to wait for her period, THERE IS NO OTHER LOGICAL REASON but that, because if she did not have their period at 6 why wait till 9 to consume the marriage.
Let?????????????????????¢??s now assume for argument sake that such alleged hadith by the so called Aysha is true, this means that from the age of 6 till the age of 9, the prophet did not have sex with her, this also means that when he had sex with her she at least had her period ONCE, let?????????????????????¢??s now assume that the prophet divorced her before she was 9 and before she reached her first period, i.e. SHE NEVER HAD HER PERIOD before divorce, i.e. THE PROPHET NEVER HAD SEX WITH HER before the assumed divorce, in this case Aysha can not have Iddah of three months, rather NO IDDAH whatsoever, let?????????????????????¢??s look at the following verse:
O you who believe! when you marry the believing women, then you divorce them before you touch them, you have in their case no term which you should reckon; so make some provision for them and send them forth a goodly sending forth. [The Quran ; 33:49]
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا نَكَحْتُمُ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ ثُمَّ طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ تَمَسُّوهُنَّ فَمَا لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ عِدَّةٍ تَعْتَدُّونَهَا ۖ فَمَتِّعُوهُنَّ وَسَرِّحُوهُنَّ سَرَاحًا جَمِيلًا (49)
-> See what the verse clearly tells: ثُمَّ طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ تَمَسُّوهُنَّ فَمَا لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ عِدَّةٍ تَعْتَدُّونَهَا , i.e. then you divorce them before you touch them, you have in their case no term which you should reckon , should have been very clear for the dumb and ignorant Mufasiroon, and their fellow FFI goons, that is if they bloody use just a tiny part of their brains, but it seems they have no brains at all to even use part of it, now let?????????????????????¢??s look at 65:4 again and it should be clear that all those Mufasiroon and their fellow FFI goons are a bunch of confused freaks who should never talk Quran because simply they could not understand it:
And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not their menstruation; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair. [The Quran ; 65:4]
وَاللَّائِي يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِنْ نِسَائِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَاثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّائِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ ۚ وَأُولَاتُ الْأَحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَنْ يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ ۚ وَمَنْ يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يَجْعَلْ لَهُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِ يُسْرًا (4)
-> The verse above is telling us the the Iddah of some type of wives should be 3 months, one of these types of wives are: وَاللَّائِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ , i.e. and of those too who have not their menstruation , according to the confused Mufasiroon and the FFI goons, this group of wives are those who had never had their menstruation, i.e. children, i.e. like Aysha when she was 6 years old when the prophet married her as alleged by the hearsay hadith, THIS CAN NEVER MAKE SENSE because in such case those young wives never ever reached their menstruation as alleged by the confused Mufasiroon and their fellow FFI goons, which should also mean that their husbands never touched them as the prophet never did with Aysha (as alleged in the hearsay hadith), i.e. THEY HAVE NO IDDAH as 33:49 told us, here it is again: ثُمَّ طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ تَمَسُّوهُنَّ فَمَا لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ عِدَّةٍ تَعْتَدُّونَهَا , i.e. then you divorce them before you touch them, you have in their case no term which you should reckon , but 65:4 clearly tells us that they must have 3 months Iddah, i.e. 65:4 can not be talking about those who have never reached menstruation rather those who ate least reach it once
Here you have it, I just slam dunked all those confused Mufasiroon and their fellow FFI goons, this means that we have another mother of all slams:
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Tue 02 Dec, 2008 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Thu 27 Nov, 2008 6:54 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 39 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Hello brother AhmedBahgat. It's been more than 2 weeks!
Quote:
Thanks for conveying message Ahmed, your friend should really join the forum.
No thanks. I do not accompany haters and bigots.
Quote:
Zoroastrianism is not racist
I said it thrives on Nazi ideologies (A unique religion for a unique race/ethnicity), which is certainly true.
Quote:
yes I would be happy to see the majority of Iranians return to Zoroastrianism, it is the homeland of our Prophet after all,
See? This is exactly what I am talking about. Zoroastrians believe in Zoroastriansim mainly because it's the "Persian" religion. It's the religion of our ancient forefathers and the rest of that crap argument. You do not follow Zoroastrianism because it is the true religion, but because you believe it is the "Persian" religion, that all Persians must be Zoroastrians or they would not really be Persians, that they would lose their identity. Most Zoroastrians make religion an ideology and mix religion with race in a disgusting way.
If Zoroaster was not Persian, you would not have believed in such a primitive religion for one second. Rational people follow the true religion, not the primitive religions of their ancient forefathers.
Quote:
but I don't resent Iranian Bahais or Jews...
But you resent Iranian Muslims?!
Quote:
in fact I empathize with them, especially the Bahais, as all are living together under the restrictions of Sharia law.
They are not living under the restrictions of Sharia law. Sharia law does not have restrictions. IRI is not Islam! They apply traditional Shia rules which at sometimes are worse than the Sunni rules. I try to get this into the head of Zoroastrians but they are too stupid to understand it.
Quote:
I'm not really sure what he wants me to say here as he's only given examples of his personal experience with Zoroastrians. He is talking about a religion of ~2,700,000 souls (an upper estimate) and he is very unlikely to have met and talked with a representative sample of us in his lifetime.
You are the second sensible Zoroastrian I have come across. The rest were racist bigoted arrogant and ignorant scumbags.
Quote:
Anyway, Zoroastriansism does care for non-Aryans, in fact for the world and all its people.
Any religion should care for the whole world. That's the point of religion actually!
Quote:
Windsor made reference to our "stupid scripture", so I'd appreciate a textual reference from him.
Does he want a reference to what i consider stupid in their scriptures or just any reference?
Anyway I think the whole idea of asha and druj to be laughable really.
Posted:
Fri 28 Nov, 2008 7:25 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 39 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Concerning the earlier argument of God having a son with or without a female companion. Here is what I now believe:
بَدِيعُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ أَنَّى يَكُونُ لَهُ وَلَدٌ = The Originator of the heavens and the earth! It is not consonant that He should have a child
وَلَمْ تَكُن لَّهُ صَاحِبَةٌ = and He never has a female companion
وَخَلَقَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ = and He who has created everything
وهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ = and He alone knows everything
The verse does not say that God does not a child because He never has a female companion. It says that God is the Originator of the heavens and earth, and so it is not consonant that He should have a child, and He never has a female companion, and He who has created everything, and He alone knows everything.
It's just 4 complete separate statements.
Posted:
Fri 28 Nov, 2008 7:57 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
Like I always say, nobody lies and cheats more than Muslims. Nobody. They are the most dishonest people on the planet.
And, O people! Work according to your positions; indeed, I am working; you shall know to whom the torture will come that will disgrace him and who is a liar, and watch, indeed, I am with you a watcher. [Al Quran ; 11:93]
وَيَا قَوْمِ اعْمَلُوا عَلَىٰ مَكَانَتِكُمْ إِنِّي عَامِلٌ ۖ سَوْفَ تَعْلَمُونَ مَنْ يَأْتِيهِ عَذَابٌ يُخْزِيهِ وَمَنْ هُوَ كَاذِبٌ ۖ وَارْتَقِبُوا إِنِّي مَعَكُمْ رَقِيبٌ (93)
-> So you accuse the Muslims of being liars, well, this is what I have to tell a punk like you: O people! Work according to your positions; indeed, I am working; you shall know to whom the torture will come that will disgrace him and who is a liar, and watch, indeed, I am with you a watcher.
Posted:
Sat 29 Nov, 2008 12:52 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 39 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Quote:
Like I always say, nobody lies and cheats more than Muslims. Nobody. They are the most dishonest people on the planet.
What an amazing comeback! And Aksel, Ankersen was wondering why I would not join that site? It's this hate, arrogance and ignorance that I despise and refuse to be a part of, especially that stupid guy with his stupid avatar.
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